Mustard substitute

Post by Lisa
Okay. Is there *any* fake mustard product out there that's kosher for
Passover? It is incredibly annoying to have to do without mustard
during Passover, and there's fake just about everything nowadays.
Yellow mustard, brown deli mustard, dijon mustard, whatever. Just
anything that tastes like it but can be eaten during Passover. I know
it's too late this year, but if anyone knows of anything I can use in
the future, I'd be muy grateful.

Mustard itself is kitniyos. But I have found that if you mix 4
parts grated fresh ginger root (but see my comments in the ginger
for Passover thread) to 1 part grated fresh horseradish root (or
use 5 to 1 if you want it less pungent). Add lemon juice or
Pesachdikke vinegar to make a thin paste. Tastes similar (not
identical) to mustard.

cindys

2004-04-11 20:01:18 UTC

-----------
Manischewitz makes a KLP mustard substitute. It's readily available in any
supermarket that has a decent-sized KLP food selection. (They must carry it
in Hungarian Kosher or in the Jewel or Dominick stores in the Northeast
suburbs). It's bright yellow and the consistency is quite runny, but it's
supposedly either "dijon" or "brown" mustard substitute. I used it for a KLP
version of the honey-mustard salad dressing I make the rest of the year, and
it was hard to tell the difference between the KLP version and the real
mustard version, but a friend of ours who used it straight out of the jar to
put on cold cuts complained that it just didn't cut the mustard ;-)
Best regards,
---Cindy S.

cindys

2004-04-11 20:09:07 UTC

-----------
Manischewitz makes a KLP mustard substitute.

Sorry, the brand is Rokeach, my mistake, but the rest of the post still
stands.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.

It's readily available in any

Post by cindys
supermarket that has a decent-sized KLP food selection. (They must carry it
in Hungarian Kosher or in the Jewel or Dominick stores in the Northeast
suburbs). It's bright yellow and the consistency is quite runny, but it's
supposedly either "dijon" or "brown" mustard substitute. I used it for a KLP
version of the honey-mustard salad dressing I make the rest of the year, and
it was hard to tell the difference between the KLP version and the real
mustard version, but a friend of ours who used it straight out of the jar to
put on cold cuts complained that it just didn't cut the mustard ;-)
Best regards,
---Cindy S.

2004-04-13 21:39:58 UTC

-----------
Manischewitz makes a KLP mustard substitute.

Sorry, the brand is Rokeach, my mistake, but the rest of the post still
stands.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
It's readily available in any

Post by cindys
supermarket that has a decent-sized KLP food selection. (They must carry

Post by cindys
in Hungarian Kosher or in the Jewel or Dominick stores in the Northeast
suburbs). It's bright yellow and the consistency is quite runny, but it's
supposedly either "dijon" or "brown" mustard substitute. I used it for a

KLP

Post by cindys
version of the honey-mustard salad dressing I make the rest of the year,

and

Post by cindys
it was hard to tell the difference between the KLP version and the real
mustard version, but a friend of ours who used it straight out of the

jar

Post by cindys
to

Post by cindys
put on cold cuts complained that it just didn't cut the mustard ;-)
Best regards,
---Cindy S.

The Rokeach Mustard-Flavored Honey is awful stuff. Try using a pareve klp
horseradish sauce or salsa instead.

CW

cindys

2004-04-14 01:07:49 UTC

Post by CW

-----------
Manischewitz makes a KLP mustard substitute.

Sorry, the brand is Rokeach, my mistake, but the rest of the post still
stands.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
It's readily available in any

Post by cindys
supermarket that has a decent-sized KLP food selection. (They must carry

Post by cindys
in Hungarian Kosher or in the Jewel or Dominick stores in the Northeast
suburbs). It's bright yellow and the consistency is quite runny, but

it's

Post by cindys
supposedly either "dijon" or "brown" mustard substitute. I used it for a

KLP

Post by cindys
version of the honey-mustard salad dressing I make the rest of the year,

and

Post by cindys
it was hard to tell the difference between the KLP version and the real
mustard version, but a friend of ours who used it straight out of the

jar

Post by cindys
to

Post by cindys
put on cold cuts complained that it just didn't cut the mustard ;-)
Best regards,
---Cindy S.

The Rokeach Mustard-Flavored Honey is awful stuff. Try using a pareve klp
horseradish sauce or salsa instead.

------------
To clarify: I wasn't talking about mustard-flavored honey (I didn't even
know such a product existed). I was talking about the Rokeach artificial
"Dijon mustard." During the year, I make homemade honey-mustard salad
dressing by combining oil with garlic and adding real honey and real dijon
mustard. For Pesach, I prepared the KLP version by substituting the Rokeach
artificial mustard for the real mustard but still utilizing real honey, real
garlic, and real oil. It was difficult to distinguish the KLP version from
the rest-of-the-year version. [I used it on the Garden of Eden salad, which
I served at the seder (Dole Bag O'Salad, red onion, kiwi, oranges and
almonds). During the year, the salad also includes Craisins. I also
sometimes use strawberries rather than oranges.]
Best regards,
---Cindy S.

Susan Cohen

2004-04-14 02:42:40 UTC

Post by cindys
[I used it on the Garden of Eden salad, which
I served at the seder (Dole Bag O'Salad, red onion, kiwi, oranges and
almonds).

Y'know, this sounds delicious!
I am going to have to try it!

During the year, the salad also includes Craisins.

I haven't looked, but I know that Ocean Spray Craisins are made w/sugar -
are they simply not supervized?

Susan

I also

Post by cindys
sometimes use strawberries rather than oranges.]
Best regards,
---Cindy S.

cindys

2004-04-14 03:15:46 UTC

Post by Susan Cohen

Post by cindys
[I used it on the Garden of Eden salad, which
I served at the seder (Dole Bag O'Salad, red onion, kiwi, oranges and
almonds).

Y'know, this sounds delicious!
I am going to have to try it!

Rave reviews, guarateed. Also, beautiful presentation due to the bright
colors, especially if you use the strawberries.

Post by Susan Cohen
During the year, the salad also includes Craisins.
I haven't looked, but I know that Ocean Spray Craisins are made w/sugar -
are they simply not supervized?

Truthfully, I never checked.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.

Post by Susan Cohen
Susan
I also

Post by cindys
sometimes use strawberries rather than oranges.]
Best regards,
---Cindy S.

cindys

2004-04-14 03:32:01 UTC

Post by Susan Cohen

Post by cindys
[I used it on the Garden of Eden salad, which
I served at the seder (Dole Bag O'Salad, red onion, kiwi, oranges and
almonds).

Y'know, this sounds delicious!
I am going to have to try it!

Rave reviews, guarateed. Also, beautiful presentation due to the bright
colors, especially if you use the strawberries.

Post by Susan Cohen
During the year, the salad also includes Craisins.
I haven't looked, but I know that Ocean Spray Craisins are made w/sugar -
are they simply not supervized?

Truthfully, I never checked.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.

--------
In the interest of avoiding a misunderstanding to anyone else who may be
reading this: The Craisins carry reliable kosher certification (I think it's
OU). Susan was wondering why they are not KLP since they are sweetened with
sugar rather than corn syrup. I was responding that for all I know, they may
be KLP, I simply never checked.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.

b***@vms.huji.ac.il

2004-04-13 14:01:12 UTC

Real mustard is kitniyot (according to the REMA). Who would want to
eat some chemical compound that mimics the taste of mustard ???

Needless to say, Israel makes real Kosher for Passover mustard for
Sephardim but it's kitniyot.

Post by Lisa
Yellow mustard, brown deli mustard, dijon mustard, whatever. Just
anything that tastes like it but can be eaten during Passover. I know
it's too late this year, but if anyone knows of anything I can use in
the future, I'd be muy grateful.

You remind me of the Internet addict who: names his children Eudora, AOL
and dotcom; who moves to a new house and Netscapes before he landscapes;
who tells the cab driver to take him to http://105.Main.Street/house/
brick.html; who doesn't communicate with his mother because she doesn't
have email; and who refers to going to the bathroom as "downloading" :-)

SAVLANUT!!

Josh

Post by Lisa
Thanks,
Lisa

Asher N

2004-04-13 14:50:45 UTC

Real mustard is kitniyot (according to the REMA). Who would want to
eat some chemical compound that mimics the taste of mustard ???
Needless to say, Israel makes real Kosher for Passover mustard for
Sephardim but it's kitniyot.

I've always been bothered by the concept of custom becoming law. More so
when the custom depends on which shtetl one comes from. Kitniyot being
the prime example. Things are either kosher for passover or not, where
your ancestor, 10 generations back, comes from should not have any
bearing in that. After All, Torah is clear on the concept of chometz.

Lee Ratner

2004-04-14 12:07:44 UTC

Real mustard is kitniyot (according to the REMA). Who would want to
eat some chemical compound that mimics the taste of mustard ???
Needless to say, Israel makes real Kosher for Passover mustard for
Sephardim but it's kitniyot.

Can somebody please explain to me what kitniyot means? I have a
vague idea from this thread that kitniyot means that something is
technically kosher for Pesach but some Rabbi had a quam about it and
declared it not to be kosher for Pesach.

Asher N

2004-04-14 14:25:02 UTC

Real mustard is kitniyot (according to the REMA). Who would want to
eat some chemical compound that mimics the taste of mustard ???
Needless to say, Israel makes real Kosher for Passover mustard for
Sephardim but it's kitniyot.

I've always been bothered by the concept of custom becoming law. More
so when the custom depends on which shtetl one comes from. Kitniyot
being the prime example. Things are either kosher for passover or
not, where your ancestor, 10 generations back, comes from should not
have any bearing in that. After All, Torah is clear on the concept of
chometz.

Pretty close definition. They are mostly legumes, or things that were
thought to be legumes. What they have in common is that they can be
ground into a fine powder, like flour. It's an Ashkenaz prohibition. It
might have made sense then. Not using kitniyot in it's ground up form may
even still make sense. But the blanket prohibition, only if your
ancestors are from Eastern Europe makes no sense at all.

Lee Ratner

2004-04-15 06:37:23 UTC

[ Moderator's Comment: No offence taken HPG ]

Real mustard is kitniyot (according to the REMA). Who would want to
eat some chemical compound that mimics the taste of mustard ???
Needless to say, Israel makes real Kosher for Passover mustard for
Sephardim but it's kitniyot.

I've always been bothered by the concept of custom becoming law. More
so when the custom depends on which shtetl one comes from. Kitniyot
being the prime example. Things are either kosher for passover or
not, where your ancestor, 10 generations back, comes from should not
have any bearing in that. After All, Torah is clear on the concept of
chometz.

Okay, thanks. Somemight take offense at this but it seems to me
that the Sephardim and Mizraim version of the Kosher laws make more
sense than the Ashkenazi version.

Garry

2004-04-15 08:57:16 UTC

On Wed, 14 Apr 2004 14:25:02 +0000 (UTC), Asher N

Real mustard is kitniyot (according to the REMA). Who would want to
eat some chemical compound that mimics the taste of mustard ???
Needless to say, Israel makes real Kosher for Passover mustard for
Sephardim but it's kitniyot.

I've always been bothered by the concept of custom becoming law. More
so when the custom depends on which shtetl one comes from. Kitniyot
being the prime example. Things are either kosher for passover or
not, where your ancestor, 10 generations back, comes from should not
have any bearing in that. After All, Torah is clear on the concept of
chometz.

Pretty close definition. They are mostly legumes, or things that were
thought to be legumes. What they have in common is that they can be
ground into a fine powder, like flour.

String beans? rather, anything that's a legume, AND any seed that
doesn't grow on a tree and can be ground into a flour, seems to be the
scope nowadays..

Post by Asher N
It's an Ashkenaz prohibition. It
might have made sense then. Not using kitniyot in it's ground up form may
even still make sense. But the blanket prohibition, only if your
ancestors are from Eastern Europe makes no sense at all.

_______________________________________

A haggadah that feeds the hungry! A carefully translated and revised version of the Haggadah, handsomely printed.
The entire purchase price goes to charity. http://www.matzoh.net/hagg/main.html

Feel free to contact me thru matzoh.net. Garry

b***@vms.huji.ac.il

2004-04-14 14:25:17 UTC

Real mustard is kitniyot (according to the REMA). Who would want to
eat some chemical compound that mimics the taste of mustard ???
Needless to say, Israel makes real Kosher for Passover mustard for
Sephardim but it's kitniyot.

Kitniyot are a type of edible seed delineated in Rambam Hilchot Kilayim 1:8
(beans, peas, lentils, spelt [I think that's what DOCHEN in], sesame,
poppy, etc.) to which were added later on items such as mustard, string
beans, corn).

Way back in 1969 when I first came to Israel (junior year abroad in college)
I visited a tiny street in the south side of Tel Aviv (Rechiv Pichiotto)
which houses all the 5-6 Israeli importers of grain. I personally noticed
100 kilogram burlap sacks of rice with an occasional grain of WHEAT stuck
inside.

Refraining from eating Kitniyot on Pessach is described by the SEMAK
[Sefer Mitzvot Kattan] (R. Yitzchak b"r Yosef from Corbeil, died 1280)
as a very old custom ("mi'mei chachamim kadmonim". Likewise, the
MORDECHAI mentions that it's an old custom ("minhag kadum").

The custom is also mentioned by the OR ZARUA (R. Yitzchak b'reb Moshe, died
1260) who lived a generation before the Mordechai.

However, there was much opposition to it. The TUR (Orach Chaim 453) calls it a
"chumra yeteira velo nahagu ken". The Bet Yosef on this TUR quotes the RI
(The Tosafist R. Yitzchak b'reb Shmuel who lived circa 1160) as saying this
is a "minhag shtut", and Rabbenu Yechiel of Paris (circa 1200) who used to
eat Kitniyot. Rabbenu Yechiel was a disciple of Rabbi Yehuda Sir Leone, the
chief disciple of the RI. What's intriguing is that the OR ZARUA was a
disciple of Rabbi Yehuda Sir Leone and the SEMAK was a disciple of Rabbenu
Yechiel.

Today, this custom has the force of a Gezera (decree) and cannot be
arbitrarily abolished.

1) "mei kitniyot" (oil derived from legumes) is subject to rabbinic debate
[especially as the prohibition of kitniyot is simply a strong custom rather
than a talmudic rule]. There were many rabbis who permitted oil derived
from Kitniyot (see: Beer Yitzchak OC 11; Tshuvot haMaharsham I 183; Yesodei
Yeshurun VI 424).

2) nullification of kitniyot in a mixture: Simple "bitul b'rov" (nullification
by having the non-kitniyot food in the majority) is permitted (see; Shulchan
Aruch ORACH CHAYIM 453:1 in the Rema "im naflu toch ha'tavshil" if it occurs
accidentally; Mishna Brura 453 # 9; Aruch haShulchan OC 453 #6)

3) although "ein mevatlin issur d'rabban l'chatchila" [one is not permitted
to nullify food in advance] there are instances where it may be permitted
(see: Yoreh Deah 99:6-7 based on a gemara in Beitza 4b and according to
the RASHBA there). With regard to Kitniyot, we're not even dealing with a
rabbinical prohibition but a custom.

Josh

b***@vms.huji.ac.il

2004-04-14 14:27:43 UTC

Real mustard is kitniyot (according to the REMA). Who would want to
eat some chemical compound that mimics the taste of mustard ???
Needless to say, Israel makes real Kosher for Passover mustard for
Sephardim but it's kitniyot.

I erred in my reply to you: DOCHEN is *not* spelt (which is real
chametz) but millet.

We just had two cases at the hospital on millet associated disease:
one with major hepatotoxicity from eating mycotoxin contaminated millet
in India; the other an Israeli who had worked in central Africa for 2 years
and who developed goiter (thyroid dysfunction) from being on a heavy millet
diet.

Josh

Lisa

2004-04-14 04:21:59 UTC

Real mustard is kitniyot (according to the REMA). Who would want to
eat some chemical compound that mimics the taste of mustard ???

Um... because we don't use kitniyot in our home on Pesach, and I like
the taste of mustard on cold cuts. Since I can't have the real thing,
why wouldn't I want "some chemical compound that mimics the taste of
mustard"?

Post by b***@vms.huji.ac.il
Needless to say, Israel makes real Kosher for Passover mustard for
Sephardim but it's kitniyot.

Needless to say, I'd eat that outside of my house (my rav in Israel
told me I didn't have to abide by the strange custom of not eating
kitniyot on Pesach), but not in my house.

<blink> I don't get it. Is there some connection between mustard and
the Internet?

Lisa

b***@vms.huji.ac.il

2004-04-14 12:07:22 UTC

Post by Lisa

Real mustard is kitniyot (according to the REMA). Who would want to
eat some chemical compound that mimics the taste of mustard ???

Post by b***@vms.huji.ac.il
Needless to say, Israel makes real Kosher for Passover mustard for
Sephardim but it's kitniyot.

Needless to say, I'd eat that outside of my house (my rav in Israel
told me I didn't have to abide by the strange custom of not eating
kitniyot on Pesach), but not in my house.

<blink> I don't get it. Is there some connection between mustard and
the Internet?

Addiction :-)

Seriously, there probably is a manufacturer out there who makes a KLP
ersatz mustard who markets this to kosher foood producers. I'll see what
I can dig up.

Josh

Post by Lisa
Lisa

Rabbi Dr. Onan ben Drusoy

2004-04-14 13:55:52 UTC

Post by b***@vms.huji.ac.il
You remind me of the Internet addict who: names his children Eudora, AOL
and dotcom; who moves to a new house and Netscapes before he landscapes;
who tells the cab driver to take him to http://105.Main.Street/house/
brick.html; who doesn't communicate with his mother because she doesn't
have email; and who refers to going to the bathroom as "downloading" :-)

I have eleven E-mail addresses installed on my office computer, and if you
saw some of what comes in to the dormant accounts, you would understand why
downloading and defecation could be synonymous. As of now, if I had taken
advantage of every offer that came into these boxes, I would probably have a
zayin that is at least seven metres long....

OBD

m***@mm.huji.ac.il

2004-04-15 06:46:23 UTC

You remind me of the Internet addict who: names his children
Eudora, AOL and dotcom; who moves to a new house and Netscapes
before he landscapes; who tells the cab driver to take him to
http://105.Main.Street/house/brick.html; who doesn't communicate
with his mother because she doesn't have email; and who refers to
going to the bathroom as "downloading" :-)

At last. A _new_ joke from Josh, that wasn't told on the Borscht Belt.

Moshe Schorr
It is a tremendous Mitzvah to always be happy! - Reb Nachman of Breslov

Susan Cohen

2004-04-14 02:38:17 UTC