Looking for Kosher Mutton and Goat

[Matthew G. Saroff]

[ Moderator's Comment: I don't understand your sig file but it seems to be
off-topic HPG ]
These are offbeat meats, and not the stuff that you pick
up at your local butcher.

I've got the local butchers (Live in Baltimore) looking
into this, and I was wondering if anyone else out there has a
connection for very non-standard Kosher meats.
--
Matthew Saroff

Does anyone else out there strongly feel that the folks at the TV
Networks who have censored out Daffy's beak getting blown off (Shoot
Me NOW!) deserve to be stripped naked, tied face down over a chair,
covered with moose musk, and set in the migratory path of a large
moose herd?
Comments to ***@123456.pobox.com (remove the numbers to reply)
Check http://www.pobox.com/~msaroff, including The Bad Hair Web Page

[b***@vms.huji.ac.il]

Post by Matthew G. Saroff
[ Moderator's Comment: I don't understand your sig file but it seems to be
off-topic HPG ]
These are offbeat meats, and not the stuff that you pick
up at your local butcher.
I've got the local butchers (Live in Baltimore) looking
into this, and I was wondering if anyone else out there has a
connection for very non-standard Kosher meats.

Kosher lamb and mutton is available in Israeli supermarkets. I've never
seen goat meat (although a few types of kosher goat cheese are available).

Josh

Post by Matthew G. Saroff
--
Matthew Saroff
Does anyone else out there strongly feel that the folks at the TV
Networks who have censored out Daffy's beak getting blown off (Shoot
Me NOW!) deserve to be stripped naked, tied face down over a chair,
covered with moose musk, and set in the migratory path of a large
moose herd?
Check http://www.pobox.com/~msaroff, including The Bad Hair Web Page

[B. Joshua Rosen]

Post by Matthew G. Saroff
[ Moderator's Comment: I don't understand your sig file but it seems to be
off-topic HPG ]
These are offbeat meats, and not the stuff that you pick
up at your local butcher.
I've got the local butchers (Live in Baltimore) looking
into this, and I was wondering if anyone else out there has a
connection for very non-standard Kosher meats.
--
Matthew Saroff

Is Halal close enough to Kosher for you? Goat is the kind of thing that
that an Arab butcher might carry. Moslem's regard Kosher as an acceptable
alternative to Halal because the rules are very similar, you could return
the complement if you are so inclined. I think the major difference is
that Halal allows more species then Kosher does.

[cindys]

Post by B. Joshua Rosen

Post by Matthew G. Saroff
[ Moderator's Comment: I don't understand your sig file but it seems to be
off-topic HPG ]
These are offbeat meats, and not the stuff that you pick
up at your local butcher.
I've got the local butchers (Live in Baltimore) looking
into this, and I was wondering if anyone else out there has a
connection for very non-standard Kosher meats.
--
Matthew Saroff

Is Halal close enough to Kosher for you?

How can halal be "close enough" to kosher when it is treif?

Post by B. Joshua Rosen
Goat is the kind of thing that
that an Arab butcher might carry. Moslem's regard Kosher as an acceptable
alternative to Halal because the rules are very similar, you could return
the complement if you are so inclined.

It doesn't work the same in reverse.

Post by B. Joshua Rosen
I think the major difference is
that Halal allows more species then Kosher does.

And the other differences are that kosher meat is killed by a shochet in a
manner prescribed by halacha and inspected by a bodek. Then the animal is
hung in a certain way to drain the blood and the meat is kashered within 72
hours in accordance with halacha. All of this happens under strict
rabbinical supervision. Halal meat is not any less treif than the meat
offered for sale to the general public in the local supermarket.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.

[Susan Cohen]

Post by cindys

Post by B. Joshua Rosen
Is Halal close enough to Kosher for you?

How can halal be "close enough" to kosher when it is treif?

Post by B. Joshua Rosen
Goat is the kind of thing that
that an Arab butcher might carry. Moslem's regard Kosher as an acceptable
alternative to Halal because the rules are very similar, you could return
the complement if you are so inclined.

It doesn't work the same in reverse.

Post by B. Joshua Rosen
I think the major difference is
that Halal allows more species then Kosher does.

And the other differences are that kosher meat is killed by a shochet in a
manner prescribed by halacha and inspected by a bodek. Then the animal is
hung in a certain way to drain the blood and the meat is kashered within 72
hours in accordance with halacha. All of this happens under strict
rabbinical supervision. Halal meat is not any less treif than the meat
offered for sale to the general public in the local supermarket.

IIUC, Halal meat is specifically slaughtered in the name of Allah.
Surely this *alone* would make it treif!

Susan

Post by cindys
Best regards,
---Cindy S.

[Micha Berger]

On Tue, 31 May 2005 16:44:23 +0000 (UTC), Susan Cohen <***@verizon.net> wrote:
: IIUC, Halal meat is specifically slaughtered in the name of Allah.
: Surely this *alone* would make it treif!

I think you're assuming that A-llah is some non-Jewish conception of
deity. I'm not sure that's true. They attribute different actions and
values to A-llah than we do to E-lohim, but are they different gods?

It's not like "God" / "G-d". "A-llah" and "E-loah" or "Elohim" are
probably cognate.

-mi

[Chano]

Post by Susan Cohen

Post by cindys

Post by B. Joshua Rosen
Is Halal close enough to Kosher for you?

How can halal be "close enough" to kosher when it is treif?

Post by B. Joshua Rosen
Goat is the kind of thing that
that an Arab butcher might carry. Moslem's regard Kosher as an acceptable
alternative to Halal because the rules are very similar, you could return
the complement if you are so inclined.

It doesn't work the same in reverse.

Post by B. Joshua Rosen
I think the major difference is
that Halal allows more species then Kosher does.

And the other differences are that kosher meat is killed by a shochet in a
manner prescribed by halacha and inspected by a bodek. Then the animal is
hung in a certain way to drain the blood and the meat is kashered within 72
hours in accordance with halacha. All of this happens under strict
rabbinical supervision. Halal meat is not any less treif than the meat
offered for sale to the general public in the local supermarket.

IIUC, Halal meat is specifically slaughtered in the name of Allah.
Surely this *alone* would make it treif!

If that were the ONLY difference it would certainly be OK. Allah is the same
God as Jews worship, the Creator of all things, the only God. It is for this
reason that Jews are permitted to worship in a Mosque, (that is hold a
minyan for Jewish prayers). I've done this many times in the tomb of Isaac
and Rebeca (a Mosque) in Chevron. The reason why Jews cannot eat Halal meat
is simply because it is not Shechita k'halacha, it is neveila.

Chano

Post by Susan Cohen
Susan

Post by cindys
Best regards,
---Cindy S.

[Lipman.]

Post by Susan Cohen
IIUC, Halal meat is specifically slaughtered in the name of Allah.
Surely this *alone* would make it treif!
Susan

I wouldn't and it doesn't.

IIRC, Rav Kook was asked this question and said it was no problem. He
understood that allah isn't a proper name, but simply Arabic for 'god'.
(He was asked by shochtem who wanted say the formula before shechting, so
Muslims could buy the meat.)


Lipman

[Chano]

Post by Lipman.

Post by Susan Cohen
IIUC, Halal meat is specifically slaughtered in the name of Allah.
Surely this *alone* would make it treif!
Susan

I wouldn't and it doesn't.
IIRC, Rav Kook was asked this question and said it was no problem. He
understood that allah isn't a proper name, but simply Arabic for 'god'.
(He was asked by shochtem who wanted say the formula before shechting, so
Muslims could buy the meat.)

The formula Muslims say before slaughtering animals is "Allahu Akbar"...
the same formula is said before killing Jews!

Chano

Post by Lipman.
Lipman

[Lipman.]

Post by Chano
The formula Muslims say before slaughtering animals is "Allahu Akbar"...
the same formula is said before killing Jews!

So? Does that mean God isn't great? And if so, what does the problem of
theodicy have to do with the vernacular?


Lipman

[B. Joshua Rosen]

Post by Chano

Post by Lipman.

Post by Susan Cohen
IIUC, Halal meat is specifically slaughtered in the name of Allah.
Surely this *alone* would make it treif!
Susan

I wouldn't and it doesn't.
IIRC, Rav Kook was asked this question and said it was no problem. He
understood that allah isn't a proper name, but simply Arabic for 'god'.
(He was asked by shochtem who wanted say the formula before shechting, so
Muslims could buy the meat.)

The formula Muslims say before slaughtering animals is "Allahu Akbar"...
the same formula is said before killing Jews!
Chano

Post by Lipman.
Lipman

It just means God is great, it's the Muslim equivalent of the Sh'Ma or the
Catholic's hail Mary. I bet the loony who killed Rabin said the Sh'ma
before he did it.

[Fiona]

Post by Chano

Post by Lipman.

Post by Susan Cohen
IIUC, Halal meat is specifically slaughtered in the name of Allah.
Surely this *alone* would make it treif!

I wouldn't and it doesn't.
IIRC, Rav Kook was asked this question and said it was no problem. He
understood that allah isn't a proper name, but simply Arabic for 'god'.
(He was asked by shochtem who wanted say the formula before shechting, so
Muslims could buy the meat.)

Muslims can eat stam kosher meat in the absence of Halal.

Post by Chano
The formula Muslims say before slaughtering animals is "Allahu Akbar"...
the same formula is said before killing Jews!

It just means God is great[est], it's the Muslim equivalent of the Sh'Ma

or the

Catholic's hail Mary.

Actually it's not, the Shahada (La Illah Ulah Allah, wa'Muhammad Rasulah -
The is no God but Allah and Muhammad is Allah's messenger) is the equivalent
of the Shema, and is, incidentally, plagiarised from Targum Jonathan from
somewhere in N"K - Kings, I think, I forget the posuk right now and don't
have the time to search for it right now but if someone has a Bar-Ilan CD
handy they could look up Leit Eloha Eleh Hashem to get the posuk.


Fiona

[Chano]

Post by B. Joshua Rosen

Post by Chano

Post by Lipman.

Post by Susan Cohen
IIUC, Halal meat is specifically slaughtered in the name of Allah.
Surely this *alone* would make it treif!
Susan

I wouldn't and it doesn't.
IIRC, Rav Kook was asked this question and said it was no problem. He
understood that allah isn't a proper name, but simply Arabic for 'god'.
(He was asked by shochtem who wanted say the formula before shechting, so
Muslims could buy the meat.)

The formula Muslims say before slaughtering animals is "Allahu Akbar"...
the same formula is said before killing Jews!
Chano

Post by Lipman.
Lipman

It just means God is great, it's the Muslim equivalent of the Sh'Ma or the
Catholic's hail Mary. I bet the loony who killed Rabin said the Sh'ma
before he did it.

You're crazy!

Chano

[Matthew G. Saroff]

Post by Matthew G. Saroff
[ Moderator's Comment: I don't understand your sig file but it seems to be
off-topic HPG ]

My sig file rotates between about 6 sigs.

If you look at the "shoot me now" cartoon with Bugs,
Daffy, and Elmer Fudd.

If you see it on network TV these days, they cut out some
of the bits with Daffy's beak full of holes, blown clean off his
face, etc.

Post by Matthew G. Saroff
These are offbeat meats, and not the stuff that you pick
up at your local butcher.
I've got the local butchers (Live in Baltimore) looking
into this, and I was wondering if anyone else out there has a
connection for very non-standard Kosher meats.

My wife is looking for a source for Kosher goat too.
--
--Matthew Saroff
Shrub stole the election, and all I got was this lousy T-shirt
http://www.pobox.com/~msaroff/liar

[Don Levey]

Post by Matthew G. Saroff

Post by Matthew G. Saroff
[ Moderator's Comment: I don't understand your sig file but it seems to be
off-topic HPG ]

My sig file rotates between about 6 sigs.

The nature of a .sig is that it is a small (4 lines or less)
note of interest, amusement, or of identification to the poster,
and comes *after* the on-topic post. While sometimes the
signature relates in a general way to the forum in which it is used,
this is often not the case.

[Craig Winchell]

BS"D

Mutton is nothing more than old lamb. Much of the lamb we get would have
almost qualified as mutton a hundred years ago, as they generally shechted
them younger then. Frankly, if you really want mutton, buy a sheep and have
it shechted (easy to do in the country if there's a shochet available).

As to goat, it's available, though I don't know where. A quick post to
Chowhound.com's kosher forum should yield you results. Also kosherblog.net
.

Craig Winchell
GAN EDEN Wines- still

Post by Matthew G. Saroff
[ Moderator's Comment: I don't understand your sig file but it seems to be
off-topic HPG ]
These are offbeat meats, and not the stuff that you pick
up at your local butcher.
I've got the local butchers (Live in Baltimore) looking
into this, and I was wondering if anyone else out there has a
connection for very non-standard Kosher meats.
--
Matthew Saroff
Does anyone else out there strongly feel that the folks at the TV
Networks who have censored out Daffy's beak getting blown off (Shoot
Me NOW!) deserve to be stripped naked, tied face down over a chair,
covered with moose musk, and set in the migratory path of a large
moose herd?
Check http://www.pobox.com/~msaroff, including The Bad Hair Web Page