Fruits

[Giorgies E Kepipesiom]

This evening my good Hannies brought home a package of mixed dried
fruits bearing a hechsher seal, and claiming to be "Tu B'Shvat
Fruits". I will not repeat my objections to the name "Tu" Bishvot, but
I do have a complaint of a different nature to make this time.

I have examined said package of fruits. They are all dessicated
fruits, among them prunes, apple slices, carob (not really fit for
human consumption, back in Durban the local farmers would grind them
up and feed them to the cattle), apricot halves, raisins, kiwi slices,
mango, three almonds, a few broken cashews, two figs, one date. All
fine tree fruits in honour of the New Year of Trees. But prominently
included in the package are peanuts, candied pineapple slices, dried
banana slices, and candied ginger. These last four comprise about one
third of the fruits, and none of themis a tree-fruit. They are all
fruits for which the proper bracha is ha-adama. What say you all? Is
it common to include such fruits in the mixture to be eaten
specifically for this holiday? Does labeling such a mixture "Tu
B'Shvat Fruits" constitute fraud?

GEK
wishing all a good Shabbas. Also good chodesh, since we blessed the
new moon this evening on account of clouds and possibly snow predicted
in NYC for after Shabbas and through the early part of next week.

[Abe Kohen]

Post by Giorgies E Kepipesiom
This evening my good Hannies brought home a package of mixed dried
fruits bearing a hechsher seal, and claiming to be "Tu B'Shvat
Fruits". I will not repeat my objections to the name "Tu" Bishvot, but
I do have a complaint of a different nature to make this time.

For you: Tee Bishvat.

Post by Giorgies E Kepipesiom
I have examined said package of fruits. They are all dessicated
fruits, among them prunes, apple slices, carob (not really fit for
human consumption, back in Durban the local farmers would grind them
up and feed them to the cattle), apricot halves, raisins, kiwi slices,
mango, three almonds, a few broken cashews, two figs, one date. All
fine tree fruits in honour of the New Year of Trees. But prominently
included in the package are peanuts, candied pineapple slices, dried
banana slices, and candied ginger. These last four comprise about one
third of the fruits, and none of themis a tree-fruit. They are all
fruits for which the proper bracha is ha-adama. What say you all? Is
it common to include such fruits in the mixture to be eaten
specifically for this holiday? Does labeling such a mixture "Tu
B'Shvat Fruits" constitute fraud?

Yes, fraud. I was tempted to buy such a package from kosher.com and decided
against it.

Shabbat Shalom,
Abe

[cycjec]

[I] included in the package are peanuts, candied pineapple slices, dried
banana slices, and candied ginger. These last four comprise about one
third of the fruits, and none of themis a tree-fruit. They are all
fruits for which the proper bracha is ha-adama. What say you all? Is
it common to include such fruits in the mixture to be eaten
specifically for this holiday? Does labeling such a mixture "Tu
B'Shvat Fruits" constitute fraud?

I can't say if it's fraud or not, but I wouldn't want peanuts
(which aren't my favorite) and pineapple (which I like) as
15th of Shevat gift.

[Art Werschulz]

Hi.

The Tu BiSh'vat seders I've attended have had both p'ri ha-eitz and p'ri
ha-adamah fruit. FWIW.

Shabbat shalom.

[Giorgies E Kepipesiom]

Post by Art Werschulz
Hi.
The Tu BiSh'vat seders I've attended have had both p'ri ha-eitz and p'ri
ha-adamah fruit.  FWIW.

The seders I have attended had matza and maror. Karpas was p'ri ha-
adama, the haroses had tree-fruit in it, but no bracha because it is
not for eating, only for dipping (after which you shake off any that
adheres to the maror). And of course, chicken soup. What is Tu Bishvat
seder? For that matter, what is Tu Bishvat.

GEK
wishing good Shabbas to all. Those who have minhag to put out kasha
for the birds on Shabbas Shira, are reminded that you are not allowed
to feed the birds on Shabbas, even where there is an eruv, unless the
birds belong to you.

[mm]

On Fri, 14 Jan 2011 17:57:34 +0000 (UTC), Giorgies E Kepipesiom

Post by Giorgies E Kepipesiom

Post by Art Werschulz
Hi.
The Tu BiSh'vat seders I've attended have had both p'ri ha-eitz and p'ri
ha-adamah fruit.  FWIW.

The seders I have attended had matza and maror. Karpas was p'ri ha-
adama, the haroses had tree-fruit in it, but no bracha because it is
not for eating, only for dipping (after which you shake off any that
adheres to the maror). And of course, chicken soup. What is Tu Bishvat
seder? For that matter, what is Tu Bishvat.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_Bishvat There may well be small
errors or even big ones but this should give you an idea.

Post by Giorgies E Kepipesiom
GEK
wishing good Shabbas to all. Those who have minhag to put out kasha
for the birds on Shabbas Shira, are reminded that you are not allowed
to feed the birds on Shabbas, even where there is an eruv, unless the
birds belong to you.

[Art Tandy]

Post by Giorgies E Kepipesiom

Post by Art Werschulz
Hi.
The Tu BiSh'vat seders I've attended have had both p'ri ha-eitz and p'ri
ha-adamah fruit.  FWIW.

The seders I have attended had matza and maror. Karpas was p'ri ha-
adama, the haroses had tree-fruit in it, but no bracha because it is
not for eating, only for dipping (after which you shake off any that
adheres to the maror). And of course, chicken soup. What is Tu Bishvat
seder? For that matter, what is Tu Bishvat.
GEK
wishing good Shabbas to all. Those who have minhag to put out kasha
for the birds on Shabbas Shira, are reminded that you are not allowed
to feed the birds on Shabbas, even where there is an eruv, unless the
birds belong to you.

The birds are not jews so they are not likely to understand why you
are starving them.

[Giorgies E Kepipesiom]

Post by Art Tandy
The birds are not jews so they are not likely to understand why you
are starving them.-

In general, domestic animals have no source of food save what their
owneres feed them. It is a mitzva to feed them even before you feed
yourself. Animals that have no owners forage for themselves. They do
not need you to feed them. You are not starving them just because you
don't feed them. in any case, what are we arguing about? Halacha
forbids feeding animals that are not your property on Shabbas, and
even on yom tov. The same God who feeds them all year when you dont
scatter kasha will feed the birds on Shabbas Shira, even if you don't
put out kasha.

GEK
wishing good week, and good chodesh to those who blessed the new moon
this evening (as expected, it is overcast in NYC tonight, but we said
the blessing last Thursday)

[Abe Kohen]

Post by Giorgies E Kepipesiom

Post by Art Werschulz
Hi.
The Tu BiSh'vat seders I've attended have had both p'ri ha-eitz and
p'ri ha-adamah fruit. FWIW.

The seders I have attended had matza and maror. Karpas was p'ri ha-
adama, the haroses had tree-fruit in it, but no bracha because it is
not for eating, only for dipping (after which you shake off any that
adheres to the maror). And of course, chicken soup. What is Tu Bishvat
seder? For that matter, what is Tu Bishvat.
GEK
wishing good Shabbas to all. Those who have minhag to put out kasha
for the birds on Shabbas Shira, are reminded that you are not allowed
to feed the birds on Shabbas, even where there is an eruv, unless the
birds belong to you.

But it's OK to give you the bird on Sunday?

Shavua Tov,
Abe

[Art Tandy]

Post by Giorgies E Kepipesiom
This evening my good Hannies brought home a package of mixed dried
fruits bearing a hechsher seal, and claiming to be "Tu B'Shvat
Fruits". I will not repeat my objections to the name "Tu" Bishvot, but
I do have a complaint of a different nature to make this time.
I have examined said package of fruits. They are all dessicated
fruits, among them prunes, apple slices, carob (not really fit for
human consumption, back in Durban the local farmers would grind them
up and feed them to the cattle), apricot halves, raisins, kiwi slices,
mango, three almonds, a few broken cashews, two figs, one date. All
fine tree fruits in honour of the New Year of Trees. But prominently
included in the package are peanuts, candied pineapple slices, dried
banana slices, and candied ginger. These last four comprise about one
third of the fruits, and none of themis a tree-fruit. They are all
fruits for which the proper bracha is ha-adama. What say you all? Is
it common to include such fruits in the mixture to be eaten
specifically for this holiday? Does labeling such a mixture "Tu
B'Shvat Fruits" constitute fraud?

Fraud?

Perhaps, but to establish that in court, you have to prove fraudulent
intent, which is difficult.The company could claim it was an honest
mistake.

Do you want to hire a lawyer and pay him $250 an hour to get your
money back?

Even small cliaims court would cost you $50 in filing fees.

some things are not worth quibbling over.

[Giorgies E Kepipesiom]

Post by Art Tandy

Post by Giorgies E Kepipesiom
This evening my good Hannies brought home a package of mixed dried
fruits bearing a hechsher seal, and claiming to be "Tu B'Shvat
Fruits". I will not repeat my objections to the name "Tu" Bishvot, but
I do have a complaint of a different nature to make this time.
I have examined said package of fruits. They are all dessicated
fruits, among them prunes, apple slices, carob (not really fit for
human consumption, back in Durban the local farmers would grind them
up and feed them to the cattle), apricot halves, raisins, kiwi slices,
mango, three almonds, a few broken cashews, two figs, one date. All
fine tree fruits in honour of the New Year of Trees. But prominently
included in the package are peanuts, candied pineapple slices, dried
banana slices, and candied ginger. These last four comprise about one
third of the fruits, and none of themis a tree-fruit. They are all
fruits for which the proper bracha is ha-adama. What say you all? Is
it common to include such fruits in the mixture to be eaten
specifically for this holiday? Does labeling such a mixture "Tu
B'Shvat Fruits" constitute fraud?

Fraud?
Perhaps, but to establish that in court, you have to prove fraudulent
intent, which is difficult.The company could claim it was an honest
mistake.
Do you want to hire a lawyer and pay him $250 an hour to get your
money back?
Even small cliaims court would cost you $50 in filing fees.
some things are not worth quibbling over

I was not planning to go to court. Obviously I am not going to sue him
over a five dollar package of fruit. Furthermore, it is a grave sin to
sue another Jew in scular court. And the filing fee for our loca beis
din to hear the case is $200. So no, I will not be suing in beis din
either. Nor can I report him to the District Attorney, or tp the
city's Consumer affairs Bureau, as it is an equally grave sin to
masser a fellow Jew. But I was enquiring whether, strictly as a
theoretical fact, this constitutes fraud. Fraud is a sin regardless of
whether there is an overt intent to dafraud. Misleading a customer,
even if the merchandise is fairly worth the money paid, is a sin.
Perhaps in this case not, since the packaging is transparent, and the
contents are clearly visible. But perhaps the buyer does not look
carefully. Or perhaps the buyere is unaware that peanuts, pineallpe,
ginger, grow on the ground, and that the banana tree is not a tree at
all by halachic standards, and the consumer will be mislead into
saying the wrong bracha over these fruits.

I have contacted the agency that certifies the hashgacha and notified
them (left a message on their voicemail) of my concerns. We shall see
whether they get back to me.

GEK
wishing good Shabbas to all

[m***@mm.huji.ac.il]

Post by Giorgies E Kepipesiom
This evening my good Hannies brought home a package of mixed dried
fruits bearing a hechsher seal, and claiming to be "Tu B'Shvat
Fruits". I will not repeat my objections to the name "Tu" Bishvot,
but I do have a complaint of a different nature to make this time.

Why are you always *complaining*?

Post by Giorgies E Kepipesiom
I have examined said package of fruits. They are all dessicated
fruits, among them prunes, apple slices, carob (not really fit for
human consumption, back in Durban the local farmers would grind them
up and feed them to the cattle), apricot halves, raisins, kiwi slices,
mango, three almonds, a few broken cashews, two figs, one date. All
fine tree fruits in honour of the New Year of Trees. But prominently
included in the package are peanuts, candied pineapple slices, dried
banana slices, and candied ginger.

You're making me hungry.

Post by Giorgies E Kepipesiom
These last four comprise about one third of the fruits, and none
of them is a tree-fruit. They are all fruits for which the proper
bracha is ha-adama. What say you all? Is it common to include such
fruits in the mixture to be eaten specifically for this holiday?

For whatever reason, that's what they do here as well. Perhpas to
_ensure_ a "shehechiyanu".

Post by Giorgies E Kepipesiom
Does labeling such a mixture "Tu B'Shvat Fruits" constitute fraud?

I doubt it.

Post by Giorgies E Kepipesiom
GEK
wishing all a good Shabbas. Also good chodesh, since we blessed the
new moon this evening on account of clouds and possibly snow predicted
in NYC for after Shabbas and through the early part of next week.

Why are you giving an "excuse" for Kiddush Hachodesh?